In Defense of the 3/4 Gen F-Body

"CammedCTSV" (cammedctsv) 01/05/2016 at 21:34 • Filed to: None

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Ok Guys, the 1982-2002 Camaro and Firebird are considered garbage by magazine racers and Supra/Nissan/Miata FANBOYS. Look, I know the F-body and a solid rear react like an Axe Murderer in the corners, but my 2002 SS Camaro achieved a higher skidpad rating than the Z06, but Chevrolet buried that fact because they felt guilty at cancelling Camaro and Firebird (which let them demolish their ancient factory in Quebec and not have to pay French Canadians...)

The 4th gen was an evolution of the 3rd gen which was designed by 70’s engineers who might have been doing coke....But I have had 7 of the 3rd gen Camaros, and I bought my 2002 SS new on 9/10/01, and since every bushing is Poly she handles like new.

What are your opinons of the Vintage F-Body?

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:37

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despite my import bias...I’ve secretly wanted one of these as they seem to be a cheap way to get good power

Nymphicus Hollandicus > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:41

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F-bodies are the gateway drug to massive power and V8 muscle cars.

djmt1 > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:43

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I think they look cool on Forza and from their appearances on Top Gear US.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:43

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They sorta look like a fish, but overall styling isn’t bad. They’re probably fast and generally cheap. I think that’s a good enough recipe.

Iheartmy365kHonda - Car enthusiasts do like FWD > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:44

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Honestly, some of the fans turned me away from them... specifically being those who are related to me that happen to be fanboys of the F-body. Now, the fanboys of the import world are turning me away from the import world. So, it came down to one thing for me:

I decided to start not caring what people think and like whatever I want to like. Who cares about everyone’s opinions here or elsewhere? Do you like this F-body? Then like it. I’m kind of starting to come around to liking F-body GM products.

One more thing. My dream car right now is a first gen RX-7. Why? Because I like how it looks and I love the sound of a rotary. Sure, it isn’t the fastest car or easiest car to maintain. I still want one! Therefore, my advice to you is just to be carefree about opinions.

Lastly, it is just a car. It won’t define who you are or who you are not. Opinions are opinions and everyone has them... that is why there are so many different cars in the world. Everyone has a different taste, and sometimes those tastes end up liking a similar object or thing.

crowmolly > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:45

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Good cars once you undo the shit that got bean-countered.

I’m talking to you:

1.) Stamped steel rear suspension parts you can deflect by hand

2.) M6 shifter boot bezel

3.) “Corvette restrictor” parts (LT1 for sure)

4.) Lack of beaming stiffness

5.) $5 M6 shifter

6.) Vega rear axle (if you can afford it)

It is pretty obvious where corners were cut. They can be great cars depending on how much money you spend.

Stapleface > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:45

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I wanted a Ram Air WS6 when they came out. I still do.

So yeah, the 4th gens hold a certain place in my heart. And I’m all for an 89 TTA.

CammedCTSV > Nymphicus Hollandicus 01/05/2016 at 21:46

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Yes, they made me buy a CTS-V and I am building an LS7 for it. It kept me from buying my boss’s 3,000 mile 2004 E46 M3

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:49

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I’ve always liked the 4th gen, I even test drove one before I got my 4Runner. But at 17 my parents had a bit of say in that(especially since they were footing the bill), and they said no. Their reasons were that I would probably kill myself in one. They were probably not wrong, but I can’t help but to believe that part of their reasoning involved a guy crashing one head on into one of my high school’s buses. He was doing 120 in the fog and rain, and let’s just say everything above the hood was sheared off.

Baeromez > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:51

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Well mine was run hard and fast, and light on the maintenance until it predictably bit the dust. Now it sits in the driveway as a monument to humanity’s collective automotive sins.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:51

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If I didn’t get my M3, an early 4th gen Camaro would probably be what I’d have. I love how the early ones with the sunk in headlights look.

Birddog > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:52

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I’m good with Gen 2, 2.5, 3 and 4. I’ve never had a Mullet and genetics has made damn sure I won’t ever have one. I have, however, owned a Mobile Home and lived next to Meth Heads. So there’s that..

I’ve owned a 1979 Z28 with a big block, a 1990 RS with the TBI 305 (slower than a Slug) and an 87 IROC with a Tree Fiddy and every SLP bolt on you could buy (14.2 on street tires). I enjoyed driving all of them.

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 21:58

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I knew 3rd Gens were disliked, but never knew the 4th Gens were that disliked? Besides looks, I can’t really see many reasons not to like them. Personally, I think they’re both great cars, especially for the money, but to each their own.

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:07

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If the damn headlights in mine would work consistently it’d be nearly without fault.

slipperysallylikespenguins > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:13

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I never liked the 4th gen until I owned one. Got a 94 3.5 v6 when I was 16. Absolutely loved it but put it into a tree, its been sitting in my parents backyard since. Replaced it with a 95 with the 3.8 and it was a lemony pile, kind of tarnished them for me after that. Still wouldn’t mind getting and early 90s z28 though.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:16

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I loved my 95 Z28. T56, t-tops, I was about the 7th owner with 110k on the clock, and it was originally a lease. It helped my know that I will never enjoy fwd/awd as much as I enjoy rwd.

John_Harbinson > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:18

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I had the opportunity to buy a 302 H.O. Powered Z-28 (exactly like this one) for $2500 earlier this year. Friend of my auto shop teacher’s got it in a package deal with another F-body, and it needed a power steering pump, which I installed with my friend and my teacher after school one day. He wouldn’t let anyone else touch the car, because it was for sale, but it turned out that the seller only wanted to make the transportation costs back, since he almost got the car for free. It was this exact color combo, which looks really good in my opinion, but... 70k original miles, Florida car, interior was BEYOND mint, still ehhhhh 80’s GM quality but mint nevertheless, and I was incredibly p.o’ed that I had bought that damn Escalade the week before... It was an automatic, but still.......... Literally, the only imperfection on the whole car was the chipping (there wasn’t even a crack) on the underside of that front splitter. Saw it for sale on the local CL for $4500 recently, and it was gone in a matter of days. :( Please tell me I didn’t miss out on anything that good, did I?

dogisbadob > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:19

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They’re awesome because they have T-tops!!! And the Firebirds even have pop-up headlights too.

My favorite is the 91-92 Trans Am. Best tail lights of any F-car.

The 4th gen Camaro has a that 90s futuristic look but still looks like a Camaro. Avoid early 4th gen V8’s because of Opti-Spark. By the time the LS came, good stuff. Also, the late 4th gen with the 3800 is underrated for sure. Yeah it’s not the V8, but still plenty of power, easy to live with, better for daily driver, lower running costs.

Supposedly the 4th gen interior is one of the worst interiors ever, even by GM standards.

No denying the performance-to-dollar ratio.

dogisbadob > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 01/05/2016 at 22:20

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How was it in terms of reliability? I’ve heard bad things about opti-spark

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:23

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I’m a Miata enthusiast, and I have nothing but love for all F-bodies. The 3rd gen F-body was my second car love when I was five years old...because Knight Rider.

(What was my first car love? ‘69 Charger, naturally...because Dukes of Hazzard.)

CammedCTSV > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 22:26

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My interior is great, once I submerge it in Armor-all. I love shiny plastics....I worked 45 hour weeks from 2002 to 2006 to pay for a $36,995 SS Camaro 35th Anniversary Edition. She was never delivered and I have the build sheet. I bought her at 17 years old on September 10th 2001, one day before 9/11....This car is approaching 96,000 miles, but she has a stack of 12 second passes in the 1/4 mile. Original engine and trans still going strong....Something to be said of GM quality

CammedCTSV > Birddog 01/05/2016 at 22:32

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I want to get my Tuned Port 85 into the 12.s, any tips are appreciated

CammedCTSV > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch 01/05/2016 at 22:34

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If you want brass gears for your headlights, I know the old guy who makes them...it will be fixed for life

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:43

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ws6 is one of my dream cars...just have to find one thats not beat to hell

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:54

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One day...

This is just about perfect. Ls1 t/a 6-speed. Dark blue

Birddog > CammedCTSV 01/05/2016 at 22:57

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I wish I could remember. That car was built with my HS graduation money in 1992-1993. Whatever Summit didn’t have I went to the “Super Shops”, a local joint called the Chevy Shop or GMPP. We never touched the engine internals, all bolt on stuff.

Next time I’m at Dad’s house I’ll see if there are any records in the garage.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 23:19

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I didn’t own it for long, but the reputation of the opti-spark is not well deserved. The problem it did have was not being able to cope will with water. Unfortunately, the 92-94 LT1 had an unvented opti-spark, and the water pump is located right over it on the front of the engine. A failing water pump would likely lead to a failing opti in those years. Beyond that, the opti is dead reliable.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > dogisbadob 01/05/2016 at 23:22

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Also, I only spent money on gas, oil, and a sensor for the coolant level. Anything else was fun/mods.

shop-teacher > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/06/2016 at 00:11

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I think you and I may be the only ones who prefer that look on the 4th gens. They just look so ... right.

shop-teacher > CammedCTSV 01/06/2016 at 00:13

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I love them both. I love the looks of the 3rd gen, and the performance of the 4th gen. One of each is on my automotive bucket list.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > CammedCTSV 01/06/2016 at 00:15

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i like them for one reason. They have t56 tranny I need for engine swap

CammedCTSV > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 01/06/2016 at 01:57

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I sold a ton of conversion kits

crowmolly > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 01/06/2016 at 09:18

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Not to mention all of the people who tried repairing it with only a cap and rotor swap, or put a new opti under a broken water pump, or who bought a cheapie replacement with the shitty optical sensor.

Speed > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/06/2016 at 10:22

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Love me some catfish!

Speed > CammedCTSV 01/06/2016 at 10:29

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I bought my ‘98 Z28 almost 8 years ago and will never sell it unless it’s to one of my brothers. Here’s the original ad from when I found it on LS1tech.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicle…

I absolutely stole the car for $6,250 back then. I flew to Atlanta to pick it up because everything in the Memphis area was a solid $3k more for something similar.

She’s now on Z06 wheels and stock springs, but I’m thinking of going back to the Torq Thrust M’s pictured above because she just looked so mean.

Bone stock the car ran 13.4s at 104. With nothing but a lid, Pacesetter Long tubes, an off road Y-pipe and muffler she awarded me with 12.9s at 107. Stock 245mm tires on 16’s. Stock 2.73 gears. Exhaust and intake only.

Now I’m redoing the exhaust (Y-pipe and catback were stolen while off the car) with better flowing stuff. Years back I installed a Yank 3500 billet stall, Motive 3.73s, tubular rear control arms and panhard and adjustable drag shocks. College took precedent, I was poor and never tracked her with all the new goodies. She served me well until the fuel pump when and I got my beater Grand Cherokee. I let the Camaro sit while I collected parts and recently got her running again with a Racetronix unit (more flow for future nitrous plans).

Once the new exhaust is bolted back on, the next steps are a proper tune and tires. I fully expect this car to do AT LEAST 12.3s, but will be shooting an 11 second bolt on slip.

If straight up power is what you’re after you can’t do better than an LS1 F-body for the money. You can get these things all day for $3,500-6,000. They may not have the greatest interior, but they’re dead reliable, cheap to maintain and, believe it or not, very easy to wrench on.

Did I mention cheap? My Yank Stall, 3.73 geared rear end, wheels, subframe connectors and full exhaust cost me about $800 after selling the stock parts I wasn’t using and buying some stuff used. Also, having LS1tech at my disposal has made working on this car a breeze. The community behind this platform and the LS engines is second to none when it comes to available information.

While my car is more of a drag whore, these cars can be built to handle amazingly well. Just look up Sam Strano. Slap some good springs, Konis, sway bars and good poly bushings and these cars will track and auto-x extremely well. With big V8 power they’re also perfect hoonmobiles. Mine will light the tires up and get sideways from a 35 roll.

Speed > Speed 01/06/2016 at 10:55

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Believe it or not it’s also awesome in the snow on studded tires. I would look for unplowed hills to climb just to see if she’d make it. Always did!

1.6 liter beater > CammedCTSV 01/06/2016 at 11:26

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I love the later 4th gens, my next fun car is gonna be a 01-02 trans am with t-tops. I’ve also had a 68 400, and a 88 iroc. I hate the stigma that follows these cars and the jokes about owners, most of it not even true. There beautiful cars, easy to work on with plenty of aftermarket support and they actually do handle somewhat. There reputation is kinda of a shame in the auto world.